Q&A With Bay Area Underground Hip Hop Collective The Outsiders

We are glad to know that the bay area has a great Hip Hop group known as The Outsiders, holding down the indie/underground music scene out there! When was the group formed, and how did everyone know each other? Are all the members original members Is everyone from the bay area?

C4:  We were formed my Senior Year, which was both good and sad. Empowering because it actually happened, and we produced a mixtape in less than two months. But sad because many of us would be living our separate lives instead of continued, concentrated growth together in the flesh. I personally knew only two members from the group before I was brought in, Elliot & Chris, and Elliot was the one who had actually approached me to be a part of it all. I went to school in the bay area, but I’m from the Hoopa Valley Indian Reservation in Northern California.  I’m a tribal member up there.

faruhdey:  Spring of 2015. Eli first approached me with the idea after a small Jidenna show. I’m notorious for poking holes in ideas (for better or worse) and when Eli said, “I want to get a bunch of people together to make music”, it sounded like many other conversations I had previously with Stanford artists so to say I was skeptical is an understatement. That said, I was already making music with Eli and had been for the past couple of years so I signed on to the idea with the thought that, at worst, it’ll be more of the same and at best it’ll be a beautiful collaboration. Of the original members, I was closest to Eli, EB, and Doza. However, I knew Jae, Jess (previous member), Meetus (previous member), and MZZZA (previous member) given the school isn’t that big (especially the black community). We’ve since added Jice to the group and parted with Meetus, MZZZA, and Jess (although most of us still remain in close communication with them and have since collaborated).  I’m a Virginia native – Hampton, VA born and raised and extremely proud of the area I came from. The larger 757 area is host to a obsene amount of talent, whether athletically (Allen Iverson, Mike Vick, Tyrod Taylor), musically (Ella Fitzgerald, Weldon Irvine, Pharrell, Timbaland, Missy, D.R.A.M., Masego), and other areas as well. The bay was cool (I currently live in New York) and it was nice to have some time away from home to learn about myself, but also to explore music – something I hadn’t done previously. I didn’t really produce anything until my second year in college. That said, college is great because everyone is exploring aspects of themselves and so it’s easy to find people who are newcomers to music, but with a drive to get better. That, in a nutshell, is an exactly what’s necessary to keep the group together: a drive and willingness to improve each day and raise the bar for ourselves.

Doza:  Similar to faruhdey, I was approached by Eli in Spring of 2015. At the time, I was DJing biweekly on Stanford campus, as well as for other miscellaneous events in the bay area (birthday parties, fundraisers, small weddings, local concerts, fashion shows, general events) but was looking for ways to further push myself artistically. He mentioned it would be a great opportunity to collab with up and coming artists, go on the road, and potentially get involved with music making myself. As for my personal ties, I was already pretty close with most of the members of the group and had at least hung out a few times with the remaining few. With that being said, I knew I had to at least give it a shot and see where it went.

EAGLEBABEL:  Other members already answered a lot of this, but I’ll just add that I go furthest back with Chris (faruhdey), Mike (Doza), Elliot (Eli Arbor) and Janei (Jae); actually me and Jae were part of a temporary collective called “90.untitled” that included other friends like Aidan and Charlie Geronimus (Aidan Louis and Hep Nouveau, make sure to check them out). And Elliot always wanted me to get in the studio with him, but I guess I personally hadn’t felt fully ready to be EAGLEBABEL for real until around the time 90.untitled and The Outsiders started forming, 2 years ago. So we’ve been rocking with each other for a minute. If anything: me, Chris, Elliot, and Janei were coworkers at Stanford’s Institute for Diversity in the Arts for years leading up to the formation of OX.

Jae:  I was approached by EB about the group in Spring of 2015, and at the time I was in Cape Town, South Africa studying abroad. EB isn’t one to express ideas fully through virtual communication, so I didn’t have any clue what I was really getting into until I stepped foot back on campus and was thrown into the process of creating our first mixtape in the midst of moving. But EB & I were so close and had tried the collective thing before so I trusted him (rightfully so). I knew everyone in the group from school, and even though I wasn’t close to all of them at first, they’ve become some of my closest friends to this day. I’m also not from the Bay Area, and a lot of us aren’t, which adds a ton of beautiful perspectives to our friendships and our art. I was born and raised in the Denver-Aurora metro area of Colorado and moved out to the Bay for school 4 years ago.

Its pretty rare to have collectives nowadays. J5, The Visionaries, Living Legends, The Roots are all collectives we remember who made a huge impact for underground Hip Hop. Wha t motivated you guys to form a 5+ member group? And how do you guys feel about the Longevity on the group itself? 

Doza:  Given the rise of independent labels in the current music landscape, it made a lot of sense to go in this direction. There’s strength in numbers, especially amongst creatives who really care about making quality sounds and having fun while doing it. I also would like to add the fact that a lot of hard work goes into getting projects and artists off the ground, so having a diverse group of people with varying skill sets also proves to be helpful in figuring out the inner workings of the industry. At this point, I feel the current members of the group have a much sharper vision of what they expect from themselves and well as the group, both artistically in a business sense. I mean we have members already looking 2 albums down the line with the collective in mind. I think time spent together is also important in answering that last question. Any decently sized group of people will have their differences in approach and thought process. However, I feel like the group we have now has a waaaaay better grasp on how each other works/thinks. Taking all this into consideration, I feel the group should be fine, in regards to members, for at least a few more years. When that time comes I feel it’ll be more a collective, “How far have we come? What should we focus on? Does this make sense still? Are all parties involved still benefitting from this?”, and less of a “Deuces im out!” type of ordeal which is only natural in my eyes for a collective of this size and scope.

C4:  In my opinion, our love for music and common interests in growth and truthful expression motivated us. There were no money interests in us putting out our music, and so the emotions on many of the tracks were raw and less filtered. I think that we’re proving that we are a group that’s in it for the long haul, based on the improvements I’ve noticed between the first and second tapes within a year’s time. We’re versatile!

EAGLEBABEL:  I think the thought of becoming a label was really what locked OX in for many of us, in addition to being a collective of collaborating but totally capable independent artists. That model just seemed to work. (And the support it felt we were offering each other was not entirely the support we felt we were getting from school nor that we would get after school.) I’m extremely proud of our progress and our body of work in those regard. And, yeah: we’re pretty huge! You know all the stories of big groups of friends that set out on ventures like these and, sadly, sometimes it doesn’t work out and occasionally it crashes and burns in sad ways. That said, I feel like you hear these stories more about bands more than you do teams trying to create a label or other group business identity. And eventually, yes: we do want to staff other folks and have more expanded branches in legal, finance, and marketing/promo, but right now it’s just us. And in that regard, The Outsiders is *tiny*, hahaha. So I guess there’s an interesting balance right now, given our current position in the game and how we’re trying to make our name in it. Longevity-wise, I really want to rock with OX as long as we can. And very early on we asked very hard questions / had very hard conversations about what that looks like practically, about things like slowing down as we approach our 40s or so, how wants, needs, and priorities might change-up throughout. I think so as long as we keep that up, stay honest, stay in tune with each other in these ways, we’ll stay together and, at the very least, stay in each other’s close circles.  We’re family first. I truly believe that.

Jae:  One thing I learned as a member that I honestly hadn’t thought about before the group is the power of collective resources. The other six have so many resources that I wouldn’t have access to if I wasn’t an Outsider, and I have a lot to give to them as well. Not to mention the emotional and artistic support I get from these guys as I’m growing as an artist. I can’t imagine pursuing my music any other way honestly, and I don’t know if I could be successful if I did.

Feel free to breakdown the creative process of your latest mixtape “O/X2”. How long did it take to complete?

faruhdey:  2 months (I think). I think we were focused on solo projects, but had material to put out. I had beats lying around and wanted to get a few done. Tyler (EAGLEBABEL) and I had our CHIVA collab work and wanted to see what people thought of it. I don’t think there was a formulaic creative process, but instead a want to share recent work and see what people thought.

C4:  It took roughly a little longer than the last tape because of the need to work and provide for one’s self before setting to the craft. We had a lot of things nailed down though, such as communication through an app like Slack, so proximity issues for feedback and such were not too bad. There’s still nothing as good as in-studio feedback though.

Who is your all time favorite Hip Hop group/collective? And why? –

faruhdey:  Group: Clipse. When Grindin came out, that put our area back on the map. And you ask a ton of people back home for their top 5 albums – Lord Willin is on most lists. I remember being at cookouts surrounding the radio waiting for a Clipse single to play and everyone going crazy.  That group did a lot for us and I’ll never forget it.  Collective: Dungeon Family. How do you compete with OutKast, Goodie Mob, and Organized Noize?

Doza:  The Neptunes. I have yet to hear another group or collective make me say “WOW.” so many times in my life. The sounds they made just seem to speak to me and have had a HUGE influence on my taste in music and probably where I’ll end up style wise.

C4:  I love The Roots personally. The Rock Alternative/Hip Hop blend is lyrically intricate and distinct.

EAGLEBABEL:  Honestly, the G.O.O.D. Music family before the label will always feel like my hiphop birthplace.  I always have to pay dues to artists like Kanye, Common, Twista, Rhymefest, Lupe, and anyone featured on their records during that early2000s time. But I was also really into The Roots and right now I pretty much mode ALL of my hiphop thinking after groups/families like Top Dawg Entertainment. To me, TDE leaves a lot of room for growth when it comes to their artists and their business but they also just make legendary and extremely well-thoughtout moves. (I actually wanted to be one of their first major jazz signees before I got with the Outsiders, that was a legitimate dream. Dead serious. TDE + only jazz. No rap. Hahaha.) So those are probably all my major ones. Technically you could include Gorillaz for me too, but I’ll hold that for another interview.

Jae:  All time? They’re not a group really, they’re a duo, but Outkast. They trump everyone for me always. If they don’t count, then most definitely The Fugees. Both teams spoke truths and empowerment and often a lot of positivity in a scope of musicality that transcends, not only music of their time, but the sounds of today still. And their visuals (which were crucial when they were really big)…they were just really solid all around. Of course, these are all sounds that I grew up with. But right now in the present, TDE is it for me. When I look for a model for the Outsiders, business-wise and music-wise, they come the closest to what we want to do, and they’re doing it successfully. And they also provide me with a model for how to approach being the only woman-identified artist in a group/label. Plus, the artists are some of the most talented artists in my music library.

How many music videos do you guys have under, The Outsiders.

faruhdey:  Baytiana & She Bad are the only two that I can think of released under the Outsiders. I have a few visuals I’m setting up for my next album.

Jae:  We have the two official music videos that faruhdey mentioned. Along with lives music video for EAGLEBABEL’s Rap Like Dom and Build You A Name off of his EP Odes and a live music video of Hurr Bout Us from our first mixtape O/X1. And Eli’s The Kick 2 official music video was released under The Outsiders, although the song wasn’t. They can all be found on The Outsiders’ youtube page, my youtube page, and EB’s.

How often do you guys perform live together?

Doza:  Before our respective graduations, we actually performed together quite a lot. Nothing like performing with one another on stage as a reminder for why you’re doing this, what the music actually means to you, and how crazy talented your cohort truly is. Not to mention being able to let loose some of that stress from crunching numbers, mixing tracks, syncing up schedules etc. Has definitely been my favorite part hands down. I also feel like this has been one of the biggest areas of growth for all our members.

C4:  Whenever there’s a gig, our performers are there, but if we’re all in the same area, we always link up and try to jam.

EAGLEBABEL:  Often as we can! I’ve found our show schedule kicks in most during the school year. I think it’s mostly school-folk listening to stuff like ours, high-school-aged and college-aged. That’s definitely who’s been filling our audiences when we do shows at places like Slim’s.

Jae:  We perform a lot in general. I think a majority of our performances have been together. But we also have individual gigs too, and everyone gets to roll out and support and just enjoy each other’s craft, which is just as good as performing with each other for me. Performance is what makes the experience of being a musician and a music-lover to me.

In your opinion, how do you guys feel about the bay area Hip Hop scene today? Is it growing or dying down?

faruhdey:  In many ways, I’m less connected to it. I don’t perform and I don’t live there any more. However, I do know up and coming artists there and from their experiences I can say it’s alive and well. I think most people don’t understand the bay area or the music scene. Before going out there, I knew E-40, Mac Dre, Jacka, The Pack, but I don’t think you can understand the music and the energy until you end up at a Lil B show or a E-40 show in the bay. People go dumb, and it’s love. That energy is untouchable. If anything, the bay area scene is most at risk of being pushed out of the bay area due to the mass exodus of the people living there because it’s becoming more and more unaffordable by the day.

Doza:  Definitely growing. We’ve run into some pretty raw crews and artists on and off stage that make me excited to see what else is going to be coming out of the Bay area soon. There is definitely no shortage of hip hop talent or interest.

C4:  It’s growing, though I would like to hear more variation and exploration. Nod to the predecessors, yet expand the avenues. The industry needs to allow artists to have versatility expressed.

EAGLEBABEL:  I’m from South side Chicago so I feel like my sense of pulse will always be strongest on that scene and that history, BUT for what I do know… man…. the Bay is a special place yo.  Almost too much to talk about! In a tightly-packed nutshell, I think the Bay has just been going strong for a long time, whether that was when Bay scene lighthouses started making their names, from rappers like E-40 to radio platforms. In comparison, Chicago lost so much of our underground our “scene” when our local blues industry tanked in the 70s and the house music explosion tanked in the 80s (among other things… the 80s was a fucked up time for every ghetto); hella venues and platforms and other kinds of infrastructure went with all that, only recently coming back at that level since Chance and Chief Keef blew up. But Bay hiphop picked up its momentum in the 80s and rode it out strong into the 2000s, staying 100,000% true to itself. Now it’s all you hear people trying to emulate on the radio next to southern-based styles like trap. I envy stuff like First Fridays, I geek out about going to local shows and seeing people get hyphy to their own shit because it’s homegrown out of Oakland or EPA or Vallejo, I love being able to go literally anywhere and hear about artists like Kamaiyah and Kehlani before they blow. I’ve never seen a community treat their own like rockstars. It’s crazy man, nothing but true love out here. As far as growing/expanding I think the popularization the Bay sound is a blessing and a curse, but regardless it’s also a huge opportunity to elevate the Bay story in ways I think artists like Kendrick and the Game are with the Compton story. There’s an incredible amount of beautiful history in the Bay, an incredible amount the world should know and things they should hear, in the Bay’s words. I would love to see that happen. When it does, I think another Renaissance might kick up in this place for real. Which would be insane.

Jae:  Being from the west, I grew up with a lot of music from LA and a lot of music from the Bay. But not being from the Bay, I can’t say I knew the music SUPER well before I moved out here. To me, it seems like it’s growing; there are a lot of talented and new artists from the Bay getting their music out on national platforms. And S/O to EB for mentioning Kehlani and Kamaiyah, because they are women powerhouses coming out of the Bay right now. I think it’s hard to see another E-40 coming out of the Bay any time soon and making as big of an impact as that man did putting the Bay on the map. But the scene is strong and the support is stronger, so I think there’s nowhere to go but up for the Bay hip hop scene.

Here it is! Our most popular question! What is your definition of “underground hip hop”? –

EAGLEBABEL:  Man, popular but difficult! At base, I don’t see it as a genre or “sound” so much as I do a community and a place along a trajectory of where you’re headed as an artist. I think you’ll find a ton of listeners there who are open to new music and a ton of artists there open to breaking conventions and/or bringing new sounds and styles into existence in ways that are safe from a lot of the vulturing that goes overground. And yeah you have purists, you have folks who take the sport a little too seriously, and sometimes underground-level vulturing from stage to press that’s life. But it’s also its own crazy universe and one of the most powerful out there, all on the back of this thing we call hiphop. Underground hip hop as a place is beyond necessary and always has been.

faruhdey:  I’m not sure I can define it. However, a reason why I used to comb through blogs looking for new underground music is that … you know that most of the people making underground music are making music that is being made for music’s sake and/or it’s being made because they have to. It’s the people who appreciate the culture and want to add to it and the people who need music and their art in order to eat. There’s an authenticity there that can get lost as success creeps in and the commercial nature of the business finds its way into the music.

Doza:  I think a lot of people get this idea that Underground Hip Hop has to have a certain sound or subject matter to be true to the movement. I’m definitely not in this line of thinking. For me, motivation behind the music is the biggest determining factor. If you got something to say or a tune just itching to be let out, then to me that’s enough. I think an easier way to answer this question is to say what isn’t underground hip hop, which to me is anything that seems disingenuous.

C4:  Usually, it’s been the music that kids illegally download on the reservation and bump before that artist has a record deal or slaps on XM Radio. It’s a developmental stage where the craft is still at-work, but it has all of the storytelling aspects and social ramifications of truth-telling down.

Jae:  It’s definitely music that has this element of being genuine. And of course to be underground is to not be mainstream, so there’s a lot of genuine mainstream music that isn’t underground. But underground hip hop isn’t just one thing. It isn’t just conscious, it isn’t just trap, it isn’t just hard, it isn’t just lyrical. It’s all of these things being delivered authentically and appreciated by consumers who wanted that authenticity over anything.

Where can people find The Outsiders on the web? www.outsidersox.com facebook.com/outsidersox twitter.com/outsidersox instagram.com/outsidersox soundcloud.com/outsidersox outsidersox.bandcamp.com

youtube (search: outsidersox)

@chance-carpenter-prod (C4’s soundcloud) @chanceyedwards (C4’s twitter/instagram) @passthemike (Doza’s mixcloud) @dozaproductions (Doza’s facebook) @passmethamike (Doza’s twitter/instagram) @eaglebabel (EAGLEBABEL’s soundcloud/bandcamp/facebook/youtube) @eagleobabel (EAGLEBABEL’s twitter/instagram) @eliarbor (Eli Arbor’s soundcloud/bandcamp/twitter/instagram) @eliarborrc (Eli Arbor’s facebook) @faruhdey (faruhdey’s soundcloud/twitter/bandcamp) @theletterjae (Jae’s soundcloud/bandcamp/facebook) @chibi_nei (Jae’s twitter/instagram) @OhHeyyItsJae (Jae’s youtube) @jice_1 (Jice’s twitter) @jice1 (Jice’s Instagram)

Lastly, and shout out?

faruhdey:  A huge shoutout to my parents and grandparents for playing classic records. To my brother for showing me 9th Wonder, Little Brother, Dipset, Heatmakerz, Bink, Just Blaze, Kanye, Clipse, Neptunes and giving me my first Fruity Loops tutorial. To my neighbors in college who didn’t complain too much when my beats were terrible. To the supportive friends both in the collective and outside of it that keep me going.

Doza:  S/O to my friends and family who have been nothing but support throughout my musical endeavors. Especially my Grandparents for the sacrifices they gave to raise me, my aunt for pushing me to focus less on sounds because they dominate the airwaves and instead focus on sounds because they’re good to me, my mother for introducing me to the wonderful world of hip hop as a kid and my father for always pushing me to keep it real and stay true to myself in whatever I do. S/O to the dreamers, the undiscovered and/or underappreciated visionaries and those who are constantly on the independent artist grind. S/O to UGHHBLOG for the love and for giving artists a platform to speak their minds and discuss their craft.

C4:  Shout out to all of my relatives in Humboldt County and all of my friends and family in the Bay Area! You are the reason I am who I am.

EAGLEBABEL:  I just want to shout out The Outsiders for being a dream team and staying committed through all of these crazy adventures we’ve been on in only a year of existing; shouts out to my parents and my brother (congratulations on publishing his life’s work, a fantasy fiction book “Arcan: The Missing Nexus” now available on Amazon and Kindle! #shamelessplug); shouts out to everybody in our close circles who’ve been riding with us and everyone in far circles who support music and the arts with all their hearts.

Jae:  S/O to the crew first and foremost for making this possible for me and for each other and for being some of the best friends a girl could ask for. S/O all of my family (it’s so extensive) for constantly supporting me. S/O especially my parents and my brother for all of the love that trumped everything growing up and for molding me into the person and artist that I am today. ESPECIALLY my dad for being an amazing Artistic Development figure in my life. S/O my closest friends from home and from college who continue to support me in my endeavors. S/O everyone who’s reading this and everyone who listens to the music and everyone who gives us opportunities like this to be heard. And S/O anyone I may have forgotten to S/O!

Q&A With Bay Area Underground Hip Hop Collective The Outsiders : Underground Hip Hop Blog